Supplemental Enrollment Partnerships in Higher Education

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Dr. Vivian Liu, Postdoctoral Research Associate at Columbia University’s Community College Research Center joined the podcast to talk about whether institutions should see our students’ supplemental enrollment at 2-year colleges as a revenue threat or a retention boost?

Many of them are free now, and they area lot of students who choose to do the two pus two model, which has startedtwo year in a comid college and Bhen Transratin a four year you're listening to enrollment growth,university from helic education, the best professional development podcastfor higher education leaders looking to grow in Romant at their college oruniversity, whether you're looking for fresh and Roman growth techniques andstrategies or tools and resources. You've come to the right place. Let'sget into the show, welcome back to Enroman GrowthUniversity, a proud member of the connect Edu podcast network, I'm EricWolson with helicks education and were here today with Doctor Bivian Lou, postdoctoral research associate at Columbia, University's Community College ResearchCenter Vivian. Welcome to the show. Thank you thank you for inviting me tojoin. You so excited to talk Wa you today about why we should see two yearcolleges not as a revenue threat, but as a retention partner. Before we diginto that, can you give the listeners a little bit better understanding of bothColombia University and your rule? There sound good so my row here at ComiCollege Research Center have been to conduct aquantative research on collegeand Libor Marces ascessed for underserfed population. Many of themare in Communiy colleges, and what I do is I use a lot of administrative statedata and also westricted use national data and look et, for example, howfinancial, a or enrroment in the summer or different transfer have have anyacademic and labor market benefit to students, love it Vivian to kick offour conversation today. Should four your institutions see two yearcommunity colleges as a revenue threat, especially right now during Covid, somy shot answer will be no but its a lot more complicated than that. So many of your listener would know fouryear and Toyour Institution. They bear very different role for for year. STRENgot to afford you to seek opatuous degree and for two years the Ming Rosso far is to get a technical degree or as a transition to get a BA degree, andyou know, interestingly, four years to serve the majority of the student as ofJun. Eighteen, then, Roman in four year, intitution actually double that of twoyear, and with that being said, I know there has been a lot of emphasis on twoyear. This days that may make for you, institution feel nervous with ComicCollege. They are, many of them are free now and they are a lot of studentswould choose to do the two pus two model, which has started two year in acomid college and Bhen Transpeto a four year. So no MANU four institution maybe nervous that a lot of the student going to the two year colleges. However,I would say that the existence of to you itself is not the Freat, but whatreally changes as student need so to continue to a track student to fouryear institution for your Wellyu need to be able to accommodate this studentand whats oof change. I'm talking about number one is not the raising jobAndrew Requirement, a lot o the students that wouldn'n otherwise ableto enroll ten to fifteen years ago and now thinking about college. So you havea very different group of student and they are not not similar to thetraditional student that that four years intitution used to see many ofthem are from Tho income background. I love miority student Ar even workingadults, so this is a new group of students that we are seeing and combinewith the fact that many of them are...

...scared by intreasing tuition and thewhole talk of student debt. People are aware of this is happening and manystudent are actually looking for a more economic cooption to get theireducation. So I would say if, for year, Wuldn't work with two year, they mayactually see more venvenue on their side, so just to give like a little bitof anot fact, amongst OLR students who have a four year degree in two thousandand Fifteenand sixteen forty three percent actually have mbro at a twoyear college for any given amount of time, and we are talking about close tohalf of the H decree holder. That is a lot, so no with no, it's not just justto Bu two moto that I was talking about, although not with twopus two your foryear receiving a lot of students that they woeld otherwise not receive. YouKnow Comming College and sending you surn they already ready. They havealready have two year of schooling. They have been successful and have themotivation to go to for year into institution and there's two otherdifferent kind of ways that students have been inter hav beenbasically kind of inthesecting between two year and four year. One is what wecall weverse transfer, which is student, that struggling with a foryuinstitution or seeing that its not really fit for them. Then they willchoose to transfer to a two year, in that case, you're, really not losingranvenue by no having the studen transfer to to year, because they'restruggling anyway and you may lose them anyway. But by doing this we firsttransfer or helping students to commit this kind of transfert behavior. Youare actually helping Thi Tin to be successful. And finally, I know we'llbe talking a lot more about in this. PODCAST is a suppromentary and Roman.What it really means is for four year primariy student to be taking some sortof two year course. You know it could be two course: Three courts in thecommuny colleges and this grup of students accoring to the data. They aremore likely to be under three point: OGPA, which means that if you look intodata itself, they have a much lower graduation, rai and sometime belowfifty percent, and if working with two year, colleges means that commer Colegecan help the middle of the lower chieving student to stay in college.They are also more lie to say in the four year for longer and taking morecosts at the end. So I would say you know this: Is Your really actuallyhaving more student taking more course and in a sense you're not losingranpenyou but actually gaining? So one thing you remember like you can alwayssat rule of now. How many percentage of coursea student can take at the twoyear and or you can have student to take a certain nou? Don't ducturatecourses and afford you to maintain a tighter born in certain cohord at thefour year, so this is a long answer to to your question. Saying that that'sthat's! No! You do have nothing to be afraid of Ahanow. The background issuper helpful and your expertisen MIS field is why I'm so excited to talkwith you today and what you're learning about these kinds of dual enrollmentstudents? Can you give us a high level overview of your working paper,studying the outcomes of these students and what you learned? Okay, that soundgood one thing I do want to emphasize is that I'm going to be careful to sayor to define this group O student, a Suppermento enroment because do andRoman have been used in many ways to describe high school student who havetaken credit at the college. So I don't want to confuse your listener, so I'mGon, just goingna refer it to a Suppemento and Roman student correatcorrection. Thank you! So there's too...

...man question I when to look at well, Idid look it in this working paper is h. How do this group of student do inschool and in the labor market compared to similar student who never took anyCommin College Clo courses and the second question is wheler. The answerto the first question differ base on who the student is so to do that. IHave Wel, we take a national data of student who were tend grave in twothousand and two and the state Ad Tracke them for eight years abouttwelve per cent of thes students have taken any common colleges, courses andEvis. Seven. Our of ten of this student take about Wonety, ten Commin CollegeCredit, and this is what I calle a permentory and rose student just totake a step back to answer this question. No, first of all, what's themotivation to do this kind of suppementary enroment I mean it is a lot of work, durning, a new system.You go to Nou campus and your facing peers that you don't know. You know whoyour Coss mad sor wou, don't know who your teachers are, and you don't knowthe quality of dinstruction and you may risk losing money and time. If you arenot able to transfer the credits that you taken a comic Cojes, but on theother side Y- U Know What my research ha shown me is that students are verysensitive to cost this dayis, like I've mentioned earlier. The student that gointo colleges are very different. Thas days they won more economic calway tofinish their education so causes one of the big issue. They want to incoarse usa little debt as possible, but there are also many other factors, so, forexample, conveniences I mean you were mentioning about covid earlier. Ididn't ithtly answer your question, but now these days the students want tohave conveniences in terms of location and whether they can do it online ornot, as well as the timing they get to choose and very often four yearinstitution. Are we straying in that because they hire a lot of tenu track.Professor and know, there's only a certain number of courses that eachprofessor, a teaching and to be able to expand in terms of the availability oftiming and an delivery method is a little difficult for some four yearinstitution and also for student Aver. Often transfer credit doesn't affectthe GPA in the primary for year, so some students may want to take costthat Tey perceivev difficult, for example, no stam course or like organicchemistry. Those are some of the requirement of their degree, and yetthey don't feel very comvatent in those subject. So it might be a good way tojust texe stole courses at Commani colleges, so they were able to finishthat requirement. withdout compromising the GPA and, finally, students have theopportunity to have TAC cases at the in the summer. So in a way it can help sooto finish faster. So imagine if you take some courses, you couldpotentially finish specials degree in three years instead of four, so there'sa lot of money save and the soon can get to the Labor marquet earlier aswell and not to mention they are also faced with us. Much high availabilityand diversity of courses that not just restrict to causes at the fourl year,but also have many other common college course to choose Fon. So these are manyof the pro I would say to to Sek courses at come colleges. So back tothe paper, with a result that I found actually murror what I just mentionedto you on average student that take a few courses, a comin colleges. Theyhave four point: Five percentage point...

...higher vats degree, completion Rigt, ifyou think of an affige of sixty percent graduation rate andcrease, a four enfive percentage point is pretty high and because they are more likely tograduate, they also earn more, and my paper show that the student they areable to earn about one point: Four dollar dollar: More Pehour. It may notsand very much to you right now, but you've you moterd by it by forty hoursa week. You get about no two, fifty a month more, which is pretty good. So Iknow this is just on Frige noat. I've said before different students havedifferent preferences and wil expect this kind of enroman patent to work ondifferent ways for a Suden of various background for semeral women. We shoulthave shown that they are more senative to distance. You know just because theytake on on afrage higher percentage of houseold chores or you know, especiallyif weare talking about women with with a child most of the childcareresponbility, a baron women, you no other other group, for example, lowincome student. They are more sennitive to cost, and time to them is importantto finish assume as possible, so that they can start making money stat usingthis education that they have earned, and you know, there's also a particulargroup of students that are under representative in stem no, namely noblack and Tha tinic student to alte women and Ho income student. They are alot more easily discourage if they have failing grade as Sain a stem course. So,if theyr interest in stem- and they worry about in what- if I fell- my my oCam Course in four year being able to take a course in the common college andknowing that, even if they fail ar not do well, it would not affect the GPA-would actually be very we assuring to them. So my result actually supportthis. This theory, I found that, among this group of students they able toearn the highest DEM credit. Also they have six to eleven percentage pointhighest dampecuis degree, compition rate, so I surprise and wow at thisparticular result. So one last resaltto mention is for myorty student. So whatI find is that they, you know not only they have higher completion rate ormore after they aduat. They actually accumulate six thousand dollarless indebt, so that is pretty encouraging. Risel Oran this my paper, yeah, thesuccess metrics are, are suber super fascinating. What do these findingssuggest might be the ideal in Roman path, from for a student, both from astudent success and outcome standpoint, as well as from an institutionalrevenue standpoint. I am sorry to say that there's no one super bullet and I do pave for student. What I canoffer is that you know no for your institution know if they can give more choices to student in terms ofconsucation, different FORMMAK and different difficulty level to promote amore individualized learning. That would be the ideal path. However, onefor you institution cannot achieve everything and that's why they shouldpartner with a community college or a whole compiticale systems, so from theinstitution perspective like what do they want now, at the end of the day,they want Stuen to be successful and we Koop the couse. No, and you know whatthat means is to increase with tention ray increase completion rate, and thisis exactly the same goal as do an have. They want to graduate to and find a job,and our results have shown that note like this is what's doing a trying toachieve and if you're able to help them give them choices from you know thecommunical system that the for you...

...intitution is working with. If we ableto US pit up that degree, completion waite and help student, their not soconvident to be able to attend more difficult courses, knowing that itwon't ruin their GPA or you know just no on fge help student to have a morecouse, attact infective way to to finish your whole paciuist degree.Those a are very helpful for a student because they are more of a search ofshown that financial, a might comfort tuition, but there's many differenttypes of cost. That is not cong for, for example, no child care like who'sgoing to take care of my kid or like elderly care, while I'm away at school,they also know cost with it to feese, boox transportation parking. So there'smany other factors to take into account to and no finally a dout student. No,they want a more fexible schedule during covid time. You are detavingmultipow of responsipliity. I right now, as I'm talking to you my five month,owas sleeping so iman. Those kind of fastability is very helpful for adultstudent, and I would say so. This is how we can help student and if son,successful institution wit, see a high banfenue because to ustuen keep comingback to take courses with you and graduate, and you Aso look better onpaper too in terms of students who are supplementing their enrolement at twoyear colleges during this summer, I've seen for your institutions get nervousabout. If they lose their students for the summer, they may lose them forever.Is there anything in your studies find things that should quell that fear inany way, I can definitely see where this pher comes from. You know astudent could be comfortable in I com, ithe, collgus, no, its cheap. Theymight know you think the old e an wane just stay, but I would think that knowif, if you'r four years doing a good job, students should appeciate thewhole cohors system, an joy being the peer enjoy the quality of instructionand and the pretiture of being able to get a Pecar secree from yourinstitution. I think all of this this is to say that, like there's, nothingforee to worry about, and if anything I will steady have shown that student whohave take a few course in comid colleges, they genuarly return back totheir four year and take more for you courses than those who have never takeany common coach courses and eventually graduate because now this student, theyfeel they find a way to do high education and theyare more encourage.So at the end of e day, you want this to happen. The more successful studentis the longer they say in a four year institution and therefore you actuallyenjoy a higher evenue, and I wild say one more thing: What institution shouldworry about is actually someoe learning lost. This is a phenomenon that is verycommon in Kidy. Twelve education in that student take a summer break thebring that was no all prepare for learning all of a sudden, just go offon vacation and they are not able to learn as much as they come back and incollege. Why we should even worry more is because the break in incolleges ismuch longer. Is A formant break, a low of student know they might go work atMcDonal or intering a bank and just having that increase in earnings duringthe summer may actually mate them. Not when you come back, Ol O suddhen you're,paying won eens of earning money and there's another line of research haveshown that somer school actually increase wetention rate wis your Namola,you come back in the fall, and I mean finally, one more thing I can offer isthat student do recognize the...

...substantial difference between fouryear Commesic College. They want to come back then want to graduate fromtheir primary institution. So I would say they have nothing, nothing to beafraid of if we start seeing to your colleges,not as threats but potential partners, any suggestions for ways that we shouldconsider developing more formulized bridge programs with these localcommunity colleges yeah, I would say just take baby steps- know just starttalking to other for you institution Trans. Are they als thinking aboutexactly same exact, same question and it is important, stot understandingyour student needs know. If let say you know you are yeal, it's like no, yourstudent, you can't take a service. You certin have no need for taking coursesin the other place. Then you don't have to worry out this, but you know if yourstudent do express interest of doing so. Next TEP START TALKING ABOUT SOTtalking to the Comin College leaders. Very often they would welcome moreuniversa student, especially nowtheys, seeing tecimman decining and Roman also.They would think that university student can bring positive change totheir student. No encourage Tju should to be more motivated, but at the end ofthe day like I would be mindful of the Comin College and think about no, youknow if you are sending a lot of university student to their colleges.Do they have the capacity to take it, and how does that impact othercommencole student, no other curving in a particular cosrm, is that Cona meansthat comic costron will fail more often because now the teacher is seeing morehigh quality unifers student, so you know those are like no just kind oflike talking sat how to talk about it. Now, if you go deeper like how do youstart set the whole thing up, no start with elective or requirement at thelower level. Of course sequence. I would choose base on differentintitution, Pirity and strength of the Partnin Commin College. You can startwith one school, a feel around you or know, Nev ambitious, the entirecommincal system, and you know talk about what cost do you want? Toentybeable, you take, you know what makes sense and also what are some minimumachievement. Should't need to achieve up before they can transfer theiparticular course. No tacking, one step more now in order T to facilite twoyeaand four year. Transfer is very important to have common coursenumbering system, so meth, one o one is the same for all school, otherwise getreally confusing. Also, I agree I'm point coriculum for each level, youknow met Oneo one. You need to learn particular thing. No, you want to besure that your student coming back to your four year institution, haveachieved a certain level of math, for example, and then two more things no betransparent and make surea student know like wher. They getinformation and you know what they can transfer what do Yo. They have toachieve that Soll of thing and look into your current existing acticulationagreement. There might be something that you can just change and studentcan use easily or you may just pray a new one or you don't have one andfinally will look into existing example that have a well established a two yearand four year system. So some of them that come to mine is North Carolinacomiccal system. They work with the universe, TAT really weally. Well, WI,essimously taxes is another great example. So this you know all of thesedifferent ways. I think Wull be helpful if institution are considering to movethis forward, basically vebeing really...

...great stuff. Finally, any next TEPsadvice for institutions who maybe no longer seeing their to your collegeneighbor as a threat, but even taking it one step forward and in activelylooking to potentially promote these supplemental enrolment opportunities totheir students. Because of these really really compelling outcomes. Whereshould they start first? So, assuming that you know everything I just sat is established, I would know mentionagain just be transparent. Knowledge is power to the student. I will highlighttha plus, maybe you know they don't even know this. This was the benefit ofthis Suppemento and Roman no highlight no, it can be very convenient O. Ithere's a lot of fexibility the low cause, and you know the Apiity tofinish early student do Valu this, but they sometimes they need to be te. MindO that this is a good pathway, because there are the inconveniences of doingdoing this particular transfer pathway to have named before, and it couldscare some student go to a brand new system brand new colleges and somestuden may be afraid of what know. If I take a course, is itgoing to be transferable and know institution won this to be very clearas well now this is a certain grade you have to achieve. This is the coursethat you can transfer that it should tecema no more than three click orthree Google search to be able to find this information and mean two other things. That's veryimportant is know nohaws it affected great, like if I know, Dude have a twopoint. Oh in a very difficult course like no is that GOINGNA affect my fouryear. GPA know. How was that mean? And finally, tuition financial, a sometime,you can get complicated if you are taking courses at different intitutionlike for a student like who do I pay tuition to like with the financial, awork in a different school and its really important for a for Yeinstitution to help Studen to to no audese. So knowledge is power. That'sall I can say Vivian thanks so much for your timetoday. What's the best place for listeners to connect with you if theyhave any followup questions, Googl Googo, my game, Vivin Dil, Comi, CosWithour Center or just search more through comic COLEC, RIA Center. I havemany more working paper presentation or news article that have talked about myresearch if anyone's interest in taking a indeath book of these topics. Awesomeit's against so much for joining us today. Viviu. Thank you so muchattracting today's new post, traditional learners means adopting newenromant strategies. Kelics educations data driven enterprise, wide approachto enrolment growth is uniquely helping colleges and universities thrive inthis new education, landscape and Helex has just published the second editionof their enrolment growth playbook. With fifty percent brand new content onhow institutions can solve today's most pressing enromant growth challengesdownload it today for free at Helocks, Educationcom playbook you've been listening to enromentgrowth university from helics education to ensure that you never miss anepisode subscribe to the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thankyou so much for listening until next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (222)