Supplemental Enrollment Partnerships in Higher Education


Dr. Vivian Liu, Postdoctoral Research Associate at Columbia University’s Community College Research Center joined the podcast to talk about whether institutions should see our students’ supplemental enrollment at 2-year colleges as a revenue threat or a retention boost?

Many of them are free now andthey are a lot of student who choose to do the two plus to model, which is started two year in the Comic College and then transferred to afull year. You're listening to enrollment growth university from Helix Education, the bestprofessional development podcast for higher education leaders looking to grow enrollment at their college oruniversity. Whether you're looking for fresh enrollment growth techniques and strategies or tools andresources, you've come to the right place. Let's get into the show. Welcomeback to enrollment growth university, a proud member of the connect Edu podcastnetwork. I'm Eric Olsen with Helix Education and we're here today with Dr Vivianlu, Postdoctoral Research Associate at Columbia Universities Community College Research Center. Vivian, welcometo the show. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to join you. So excited to talk with you today about why we should see two yearcolleges not as a revenue threat but as a retention partner. Before we diginto that, can you give the listeners a little bit better understanding of bothColumbia University and your rule there? Sound good. So my row here atCommit College Resource Center have been to conduct quantitative research on college and Laba Marcas. Assessed, for a the serf population. Many of them are in community colleges, and what I do is I use a lot of administrative state dataand also we start to use national data and look at, for example,how financial a or enrollment in the summer or different transfer path have any academicand labor market benefit to students. Love it, Vivian, to kick offour conversation today. Should for year institutions see two year community colleges as arevenue threat, especially right now during covid so my short answer will be no, but is a lot more complicated than that. So many of your listenerwith know for Year and two year institution they bear very different role. Forfor year, student go to for you to seek bachelor's degree and for twoyears the main row so far is to get a technical degree or, asa transition, to get a BA degree. And you know, interestingly, foryou still serve the majority of the student as of two thousand and eighteen. Then Roman in four year institution actually double that of two year. Andwith that being said, I know there has been a lot of emphasis ontwo years these days. That may make for you institution feel nervous with ComicCollege. There are many of them. Are Free now and they are alot of student would choose to do the two plus to model, which isstarted two year in a comedic college and then transferred to a four year.So now many for you, institution, may be nervous that a lot ofthe student going to the two year colleges. However, I would say that theexistence of two years self is not the threat, but what really changesis student need. So to continue to attract student to for Year institution,for Year really need to be able to accommodate this student. And whatso ofchange that I'm talking about, number one is not the raising job and requirement. A lot of the student that wouldn't otherwise be able to enroll ten tofifteen years ago and now thinking about college. So you have a very different groupof student and they are not not similar to the traditional student that thatfour years institution used to see. Many of them are from no income background. I love myority student are even working adults. So this new group ofstudent that we are seeing and combined with...

...the fact that many of them arescared by increasing tuition and the whole talk of student debts. People are awareof this is happening and many student are actually looking for more economic co optionto get the education. So I would say if for year willing to workwith two year, they may actually see more of when venue on their side. So, just to give like a little bit of a nerfact, amongstall students who have a four year degree in two thousand and fifteen, twothousand and sixteen, forty three percent actually have enrolled at a two year collegefor any given amount of time. And we're talking about close to half ofthe BA degree holder. That is a lot. So No, with no, it's not just just a two butts to model that was talking about,although note with two plus two, your four year receiving a lot of studentthat they would otherwise not received. No, comming college are sending you student theyalready ready they have already have two years of schooling, they have beensuccessful and have the motivation to go to four year institution. And there's twoother different kind of ways that student have been into happen basically kind of intersectingbetween two year and four year. One is what we call reverse transfer,which is student that struggling with a forty institution or seeing that is not reallyfit for them, then they will choose to transfer to a two year.In that case, you're really not losing revenue by now having the student transferredto two year, because they're struggling anyway and you may lose them anyway.But by doing this reverse transfer or helping student to commit this kind of transferbehavior, you are actually helping the student to be successful. And finally,I know we'll be talking a lot more about in this podcast, is asupplementary and Roman. What it really means is for a four year primarily studentto be taking some sort of two year course. No, it could betwo course, three course and a community colleges and this group of student,according to the data, they are more likely to be under three pointo GPA, which means that, if you look into the data itself, they havea much lower graduation rate and sometimes below fifty percent. And if working withtwo year colleges means that commer college can help the middle to lower achieving studentto stay in college, they are also more likely to stay in the fouryear for longer and taking more costs at the end. So I would say, you know, this is you're really actually having more student taking more courseand in a sense you're not losing ran when you but actually gaining. Soone thing you remember, like you can always set row of know how manypercentage of course student can take it a two year and or you can havestudent to take a certain new de Luctury courses at the Fort You to maintaina title born in certain cohort at the four year. So this is along answer to to your question saying that there's that's no, you know,have nothing to be afraid of. Now the background is super helpful and yourexpertisems field is walk. I am so excited to talk with you day andwhat you're learning about these kinds of dual enrollment students. Can you give usa high level overview of your working paper studying the outcomes of these students andwhat you learned? Okay, that sound good. One thing I do wantto emphasize is that I'm going to be careful to say or to define thisgroup student, a suppermental and Roman, because during Rollman have been used inmany ways to describe high school student who have taken credit at the college.So I don't want to confuse your listeners. I'm going just gonna refer it toa suppermental and Roman student. Great Correction. Thank you. So there'stwo main question I want to look at.

Well, I did look at inthis working paper, is that how do this group of student do inschool and in the labor market compared to similar student who never take any ComicCollege cloud courses? And the second question is one of the answer to thefirst question differ based on who the student is. So to do that Ihave. Well, we take a national data of student who were ten gradein two thousand and two and this date attract them for eight years. Abouttwelve percent of this student have taken any comedic colleges courses and every seven outof ten of the student take about one to ten commit college credit. Andthis is what I cause supplementary and roastudent. Just to take a step back theanswer this question now, first of all, what's the motivation to dothis kind of supplementary and Roman I mean is is a lot of work learninga new system. You go to a new campus and you're facing peers thatyou don't know. You know who your classmates are, you don't know whothat your teachers are and you don't know the quality of instruction and you mayrisk losing money and time if you are not able to transfer the credits thatyou take in a comic colleges. But on the other side, know whatmy research have shown me is that student are very sensitive to cost this dayis, like I've mentioned earlier, the student that go into colleges are verydifferent these days. They one more economical way to finish the education. Socauses one of the big issue. They want to Incurag US little deb aspossible, but there are also many other factors. So, for example,conveniences. I mean you were mentioning about covid earlier. I didn't really answeryour question, but now these days to student want to have conveniences in termsof location and whether they can do it online or not, as well asthe timing. They get to choose and very often for Year Institution and restrength in that cause they hire a lot of ten year track professor and knowthere's only a certain number of courses that the ISA professor teaching and to beable to expand in terms of the availability of timing and on delivery method isa little difficult for some for a year institution and also for student. Veryoften transfer credit doesn't affect the GPA in their primary for a year. Sosome student may want to take cost that they perceive difficult, for example,no stamp course or like again, the chemistry. Those are some of therequirement of their degree and yet they don't feel very competent in those subject soit might be a good way to just take so courses at comic colleges sothey were able to finish that requirement without compromising the GPA. And finally,student have the opportunity to have two causes at the in the summer. Soin a way you can help students to finish faster. So imagine if youtake some of courses, you could potentially finish specials degree in three years Intelthe for so there's a lot of money safe and the student can get tothe labor market earlier as well. and not to mention they are also facedwith us much high availability and diversity of courses that not just restrict to causesat the four year but also have many other commuter college course to choose from. So there are many of the the pro I would say, to takecourses at commer colleges. So back to the paper. With the result thatI found actually mirror what I just mentioned to you. On average, studentthat take a few courses, that coming colleges, they have four point fivepercentage point higher bachelous degree completion rate.

If you think of an average ofsixty percent graduation rate and increase of open five percentage point is pretty high.And because they are more likely to graduate, they also earn more, and mypapers show that the student they are able to earn about one point fourdollar dollar more per hour. It may not sound very much to you rightnow, but if you modify it by forty hours a week, you getabout no to fifty a month more, which is pretty good. So Iknow this is just on average. No, I've said before, different students havedifferent preferences and will expect this kind of enrollment pattern to work in differentways for student of various background, for example women, which should have shownthat they are more sensitive to distance, you know, just because they takeon on average, higher percentage of household chores or no, especially if weare talking about women with with a child. Most of the childcare responsibility of bearon women and no other other group, for example low income student. Theyare more sensitive to cost and time. To them it is important to finishassume as possible about so that they can start making money so that usingthis education that they have earned. And you know, there's also a particulargroup of student that are under representative in stem. No, namely no blackand that text student. Also women and the income student. They are alot more easily discourage if they have failing great as saying a stamp course.So if they're interest in stem and they worry about what if I fail mymy old cam course in for a year, being able to take a course inthe community college and knowing that even if they fail, not do well, it wouldn't affect their GPA would actually be very reassuring to them. Somy result actually support this this theory. I found that among this group ofstudent they able to earn the highest dam credit. Also, they have sixto eleven percentage point highest damp bachelors degree completion rate. So I surprise andwow at this particular result. So one last resort to mention is for myearity student. So what I found is that they, you know, notonly they have higher completion rate, earn more after take graduate they actually accumulatesix thousand dollar less in debt. So that is pretty encouraging result or around. That's my paper. Yeah, the success metrics are super, superfascinating.What do these findings suggest might be the ideal Roman path from for a student, both from a student success now come standpoint, as well as from ininstitutional revenue standpoint? I am sorry to say that there's no one super bulletand ideal path for student. What I can offer is that you know notfor your institution know. If they can gifts, more choices to student interms of cost, location, different format and different difficulty level to promote themore individualized learning, that would be the ideal path. However, one foryou institution cannot achieve everything, and that's why they should partner with a communitycollege or a whole cooming the call systems. So, from the institution perspective,like what do they want? No, at the end of the day,they wants to be successful and we cook the cost. No, andyou know what that means? Is to increase retention rate, increase completion rate, and this is exactly the same goal as students have. They want tograduate to and find a job, and our result have shown that. Notelike this is what student a trying to achieve and if you're able to helpthem and give them choices from, you...

...know, the communic call system thatthe for you institution is working with it, we able to you a beat uptheir degree completion rate and help student they are not so confident to beable to attend more difficult courses knowing that it won't ruin their GPA or,you know, just no on average. Help student to have a more costattack effective way to to finish a whole actualist degree. Those are very helpfulfor a student because they're morea starch. Have shown that financial aim comfort tuition, but there's many different types of cost that is not account for. Forexample, no child care, like who's going to take care of my kid, or like elderly care while I'm away at school. They also know costwith it to fees, books, transportation, parking. So there's many other factorsto take into account to and no. Finally, adult student know they wanta more flexible schedule during covid time. You are det having multiple a responsibility. I write now as I'm talking to you, my five months Iwas sleeping. So I mean those kind of fassibility is very helpful. Foradult student, and I would say so. This is how we can help studentand if student successful, institution we see a high revenue because your studentkeep coming back to take courses with you and graduate, and you also lookbetter on paper to in terms of students who are so appointing their enrollment atto your colleges during the summer. I've seen for your institutions get nervous aboutif they lose their students for the summer they may lose them forever. Isthere anything in your studies findings that should quell that fear in any way?I can definitely see where the sphere come from. You know, a studentcould be comfortable in a coming colleges? No, it's cheap. They mayknow you think they would and it won't just stay. But I would thinkthat you know if your for years doing a good job, students should appreciatethe whole cohort system, enjoy being with the peer enjoy the quality of instructionand and the prestiture of being able to get that betterus degree from the institution. I think all of these this is to say that there's nothing for youto worry about and if anything, I'll study have shown that student who havetaken a few courses and comic colleges, they generally return back to their foryear and take more for you courses than those who have never take any comiccollege courses and eventually graduate because now the student, they feel they find away to do high education and they're more encourage. So at the end ofthe day, you want this to happen. The most successful student is the longer, they say, in a four year institution, and therefore you actuallyenjoy a higher avenue. And I will say one more thing. What institutionshould were really about is actually some learning lost. This is a phenomenon thatis very common in Katy twelve education, in that student take us on abreak. Their brain that was no all prepare for learning all of a suddenjust go off on vacation and they are not able to learn as much asthey come back. And in College, why we should even weary more isbecause the break in colleges is much longer, is a fore month brick. Alaw student know they might go work at a Madonna or intern a bank, and just having that increase in earnings during the summer may actually make themnot when to come back. All of a sudden you're paying money, ensup earning money. And there's another line of research. Have shown that summerschool actually increase retention rates for student while you come back in the fall.I mean. Finally, one more thing I can offer is that student dorecognize the substantial difference between four year community... They want to come back, they want to graduate from their primary institution. So I would say theyhave nothing, nothing to be afraid of if we start seeing to your collegeis not as threats but potential partners. Any suggestions for ways that we shouldconsider developing more formalized bridge programs with these local community colleges? Yeah, Iwill say, just take baby steps. No, just start talking to otherfor you institution turns. Are they also thinking about the exactly same, exactsame question, and its important start understanding your student needs. Know if,let's say, you know you are Yale, it's like know your student. Youcontact a servant. You Sudn't have no need for taking courses in theother place than you have the worry of this, but we know if yourstudent do express interests of doing so. Next step start talking about start talkingto the comic college leaders. Very often they would welcome more university student,especially nowadays seeing a decline and declining and Roman also. They would think thatuniversity student can bring positive change to the student or encourage the shouldn't be moremotivated? But at the end of the day, like I would be mindfulof the Comic College and Think About No, you know, if you are sendinga lot of universe student to their colleges, do they have the capacityto take it? And how is that impact other comedic college student? No, other curving in that particular classroom. Is that going? That means thatcomedic college student will fail more often because now the teacher is seeing more highquality universe student. So you know, those are like notice, kind oflike talking sorts other talk about it. Now, if you go deeper,like how do you start set the whole thing up? Know, start withelective or requirement at the lower level. Of course, sequence I would choosebased on different institution, Party and strength of the partnering Community College. Youcan start with no one school, I feel around you or you know nearby, ambitious the entire commical system. And you know, talk about know whatcost you one student to be able to take you know, and what makessense and also what are some minimum achievement student need to achieve before they cantransfer the particular course? No ticking one step or no. In order toto facility two year in four year transfer, is very important to have common coursenumbering system. So math one hundred and one is the same for allof the school. Otherwise get really confusing. Also, agree on point curriculum foreach level. No, math one. You need to learn particular thing.No, you want to be sure that your student coming back to yourfour year institution have achieved a certain level of math, for example. Andthen two more thing. No, be transparent and make sure student know,like where they get information and you know what they can transfer. What doyou have to achieve that sort of thing. And look into your current existing particulationagreement. There might be something that you can know just change and studentcan use easily, or you may just write a new one or you don'thave one. And finally, we look into existing example that have a wellestablished two year and four year system. So some of them that come tomind is North Carolina commed call system. They work with the universe and really, really well with is samously taxes as is another great example. So thisknow, all of these different ways. I think will be helpful if institutionconsidering to move this forward, basically giving...

...really great stuff. Finally, anynext steps? Advice for institutions who maybe no longer seeing there to your collegeneighbor as a threat, but even taking it one step forward and in activelylooking to potentially promote these subminal enrollment opportunities to their students because of these really, really compelling outcomes? Where should they start first? So, assuming thatyou know, I thing I just said is established, I would know mentionagain, just be transparent. Knowledge is power to the student. I wouldhighlight a plus. Maybe you know. They don't even know this. Thiswas the benefit of this supplemental enrollman. No, highlight. No, itcan be very convenient. There's a lot of flexibility the low cause and youknow that ability to finish early. Student do value this, but they sometimesthey need to be the mind that this is a good pathway because there arethe inconveniences of doing doing this particular transfer pathway that I have named before andit could scare some student to go to a brand new system, brand newcolleges and some sort of may be afraid of what you know if I takea course, is it going to be transferable? And No, institution one. This to be very clear as well. Now this is a certain gray youhave to achieve. This is the course that you can transfer that.It should take no more than three click or three Google search to be ableto find this information. And mean to other things. That's very known has effected great like if I know, Dude, have a twoBono in a very difficult course, like no, is that going to affectmy four year GPA? Know, how was that mean? And finally,tuition, financial A. Sometimes we can get complicated if you're taking courses adifferent institution, like for student, like who do I pay tuition to?Like with the financial a work in a different school, and it's really importantfor for institution to help student to know all these. So knowledge is power. That's all I can say, may being, thanks so much for yourtime today. What's the best place for listeners to connect with you if theyhave any follow up questions? Google, Google my name, vivindew come,a college restos center or just such more food comic clash, resurce center.I have many more working paper, presentation or News Autit Code that have talkedabout my research. If anyone's interest in taking a indepth look of these topics. Awesome thics. Against so much for joining us today, Vivian. Thankyou so much. Attracting today's new post traditional learners means adopting new enrollment strategies. Helix educations data driven, enterprise wide approach to enrollment growth is uniquely helpingcolleges and universities thrive in this new education landscape, and Helix has just publishedthe second edition of their enrollment growth playbook with fifty percent brand new content onhow institutions can solve today's most pressing enrollment growth challenges. Downloaded today for freeat Helix Educationcom. Playbook. You've been listening to enrollment growth university from HelixEducation. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the shownitunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Untilnext time.

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